LGBTQ+ and the Church - Real Talk pt 7

So, guys, this is our last weekend, our sermon series called The Real Talk. Over the past several weeks, we've been engaging in conversations about just some real things we deal with in this world. We talk about flipping furniture. We talked about how we get it from my momma to honors on Mother's Day, and we talked about so many other things a few weeks ago. We talked about no strings attached and how God wants us to really sever those strings that we are attached to so that we can begin to mobilize and go where God has called us to do. And today, their worship. I just felt a heaviness of just trying to get to that secret place right? You know, I'm a worshiper.

I love worshiping God. I love worship in our corporate setting. But for me, I had a hard time getting to that place. And sometimes we have that and I don't know if it's because of the content that we're talking about today, but because it's heavy it is super heavy and as I began to talk about this sensitive topic that we'll be talking about, just just prepare yourself to see what God is going to do. And I will say this after we finish up our lesson today, we will have Q&A. Right? Because the topic is such a detriment to our belief and what we or we're living in today's society, we want to just kind of have an opportunity after service just to fill questions from the floor. And I would try my best to honor and answer those questions.

If I don't know the answer right off the bat, I will get back with you, man. This grace and also that is wisdom. I don't proclaim know a lot, but I know a little bit about some things. But I do believe in studying to show myself or prove rightly divided the word of God if you have your Bibles, let's open up to John Chapter eight, we'll read versus one through 11 and I'll be reading from the interview version. John, Chapter eight versus one through 11. The Word of God read as follows But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives at dawn. He appeared again in the temple courts where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them the teachings of the law. And the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in the very act of adultery they made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman, this woman that we have right before you was caught in the act of adultery, in the Law of Moses Command, is that a stone?

Whether we should stone such a woman now what do you say, Jesus, what are you going to do now that we brought this lady right before you? What are you going to do? Because the Mosaic Law tells us that we are to stone her there. We're using this question as a trap in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bit down and started to write in the ground with this finger and when they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, Let any one of you who is without sin throw King James's cast cast the first stone again. He stepped down, stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this time, those who were begin to go away at one time at a time.

One at a time. Amen. I think I got 20, 20. Jesus was left with a woman still standing there verses says Jesus straightened up and asked her woman why are they has no one a king commanded, condemned you no one. No one, sir. She said that neither do I condemn you. Jesus declared, Go now and leave your life of sin. John. Chapter eight versus one through 11. A very familiar passage of Scripture. Right passage. Scripture talks about where if you were without sin, cast the first stone. If I was smart, I would bring some some rocks up here so that where you guys can come up here and cast a stone at me because I have sinned and I'll continue to sin. I've sin multiple times Scripture tells us this for everything in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lest of the eyes and the pride of life comes not from the father, but from the world. And today's topic, we're going to be so sensitive that I believe that it's going to challenge many of us over. Some of you is going to be very uncomfortable if you have got it all figured out, then you know what?

Feel free and we'll give you a pass. Go ahead. Go to sleep. If you have got all figured out, go ahead and take a nap. I'ma be up here for about 30 to 45 minutes. Take a nap is on me. I won't hold anything against you. But if you don't have got all figure out a way actually to Dowland lean into this this lesson today to this topic that we're going to talk about has plagued the church for centuries. No one has a pledge. The Church's pledge, our community that is taken over our lives and taken over mainstream TVs, has taken over commercials, is taking over every aspect of what we wear, where we live, today. And I believe this. And we have to learn how to live with our differences and make the most of what we have and not cause us to divide ourselves between our beliefs. This topic that we're going to talk about today, that the Methodist Church is dealing with it right now, even our church, the Wesleyan denomination, has dealt with it. We dealt with in 2 hours in conversations in a general conference in St Louis. And historically speaking, the church has not done well with this one topic historically speaking, we have not done well with this topic, even for believers.

We haven't even talked about it and if we have, we have talked about an academic way. This many questions asked are the right terms used in how can the church play an active role in bringing the conversion and the conversations and others like it in a healthy way? Things has been done. The name of Jesus about this topic, and I believe this if the body of Christ can learn to listen in different perspectives, then how can we grow as believers, right? If we can begin to lean into different perspectives or different things of what this conversation is going to talk about, how can we grow as a church so today we were talking about an issue that is at a fault line of society. Today, the title of my church is Homosexuality in the Church, Homosexuality in the Church. Think about this 65% of the US population describes themselves as Christians. 65% and only five 26% of the US population describe themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender do you guys see that? Do you see that disparity? 65% of the US population believe that they are Christian believers in only 5.6% say that there are transgender, gay or bisexual or we known as LGBT, VQ I 80 plus and so just to be safe, I'm just going to say the LGBTQ here we go from here.

How do we begin to navigate where God has called us to do I've seen in churches where people will take the Word of God and begin to be this social group with the word of God literally beat them down with the Word of God beating them over their heads. They may have left wounded and hurt in feeling like they may not ever come back into the church again. God gave us His Word as the source of hope. God has given us His Word as a source of of a teaching and love second 73 six says this All Scriptures are God brief and useful for teaching, rebuking correcting and training in righteousness. Did you get that the scriptures are there for the teach to provide a rebuke? That's that's kind of like a soft no, right?

Like you're headed in the wrong direction. So let me help guide you in a certain way where you can get back in line what God wants you to do is the source of correcting. Is that realignment. Then also a training so I try my best to properly present the Scriptures today. I'll give you a lot of Scripture. So that way is you guys know with the Word of God, it is not right you see, I find myself kind of like kind of stuck in the middle, right? It was in, in one fashion. I have the heart of what this topic talks about. And then also I had the hidden knowledge of what this topic talks about as well. So I'm kind of find myself kind of like stuck in the middle because I have the heart to see what's going on because I understand the LGBTQ community, right? They're marginalized, they're forsaken, they're talked about, they're even cast outside of the church at times. And being a person of color. Right. I feel that same way at times. I felt the same way were marginalized where I'm not liked or I'm not accepted in social settings.

Right. Even my our Asian brothers and sisters. I remember when 911 hit all of our Asian Indian descent. People people were looking at them crazy. You know what I'm talking about? You live, we have our Latino brothers and sisters. You know, sometimes you look at our our Latin our Hispanic population, and we believe that, oh, you know, you're border hoppers, right? Right. How did you get over here? Did you crawl through the up under the fence or did you go through the wall or did you did you wade through the water? Right. You know what? Exactly what I'm talking about to see. I understand how they feel about being marginalized and I'm not going to give up my white brothers and sisters. I here because now we're in a day and age where we talk about. Right. Fragility and that oppression or just at that process thinking, why? Why do I have to begin to walk through this process and not have the compassion or I do have the compassion. But yet you're telling me I said, what? My 40 acres in Miami, you come on church so every culture, every race has been marginalized to a certain degree.

And how is the church talking about it? How is the church teaching and equipping and correcting, even rebuking in such a way? Leviticus Chapter 18 says this, right? Because my heart says that I limit with my brothers and sister who who proclaim that they are in a part of the LGTB community. But then the other side worries the head knowledge of the scriptures right? I have the knowledge of the Scriptures that tells us that this lifestyle is wrong. Leviticus chapter and verse 22 says This you shall now lie with a male. As with a woman, it is an abomination. Yeah, I get that. Do I need to get a little more graphic? Come on, just talk back to him, OK? I just wanna make sure we're you're not to lie with a male, as with a woman, because it is abomination.If that's not good enough, let's just pull another scripture live. Wicked is chapter 20. Verse 13 says this if a man lies with the male as he lies with the woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

See, there's there's all throughout the scriptures that talks about this lifestyle of LGTB. You so what is that? To call this type of sin an abomination is is pretty, is pretty heavy, right? But see, this is not the only thing that Scripture talks about and a being an abomination all right, see, I'm not going to highlight all the I'm just going to give you the context of where the scriptures is. Go to Proverbs chapter six versus 16 through 19. Go there and use spare time. But just to kind of keep track of where we want to go today. Proverbs chapter six verses 16 through 19, he talks about six other abominations so let's not just lean too heavy on just one and not forget about the other six cc i famous have stuck in the middle of that because on one side I understand what it means to to have the heart for this community.

But then the other here because I am a pastor, I actually take the pass to tie it off because I'm a Christian right? I'm a believer we have to abide to begin to walk through the scriptures. Even a John Wright John talks about the word became flesh and he be made is dwelling among us. And when we see the glory the glory of the only one the so who came from the father who was full of grace and truth. See I have heart and head one hand but then Jesus has grace on one side and truth on the other side. He's full of grace. Yeah, he's full of truth. You can't have grace without truth. You can't have truth without grace So there's somewhere in the middle that we must find ourselves walking and co laboring with this group of people and so just if you're a reader, if you want to just kind of study different books on a name, a few books, if you want to write them down, do that.

Because these are just probably six other books. I'll say maybe four, four books. I'm just going to highlight that you can kind of really begin to talk about or read and just learn what this this community of believers did you cast it? Yeah, a community of believers, the LGBTQ may be a believer. Yes. Preston Sprinkle has a book called Embodied Talks About Gender Discussion. Chasing Love is an easy read. He talks about this An Easy Road for teenagers. So if you're dealing with the teenagers I'm I'm let you know right now my nieces, my nephews, my kids and our he's our their face, our youth, our young adults, they're faced with this at a very early age. And we have to begin to start navigating having conversations with this. I encourage you not to not to have a conversation, but to have the conversation begin to speak the Bible and begin to proclaim what the scripture says. Sean McDowell has a book called Chasing Love, and it's the easy Renas is about. This is really set for teenagers to have small group discussions. And so I just encourage that you guys have that book also.

There's another book called Emerging Gender Identities this is a common thread here. There's a common thread where our youth are young adults and they don't even know their identity. They have forgotten that their identity is solely in Christ like Lindsey. Shirley is not in your your instant messages or how many people you have on Instagram or Snapchat or how many, you know, what your streaks are like.

All of that is that's not your identity. Your identity comes from Christ in Christ alone. So if you want to know who you are, who's you are beginning to pick up this book and he'll tell you everything that you need to know standard operating procedures for the body. This is for the Body is another book, and this is by Timothy Tenet and another one that I really recommend, which is an author, writer, and we actually see a video about her later run is by Jackie Hill Perry. She wrote a book called Gay Girl and Good God, Gay Girl and Good God. And so today, what I really want to do is just kind of really talk about the arguments that many believers or even just the world is presenting just to really just a Christian the Christian settings, right? The church and what they're what they're talking about and I'm just going to highlight two very popular arguments.

The first one is this the homosexuality is not even in the Bible is the word homosexuality. Even in the Bible, Google, it requires almost a lot of Googling. See if you can find it. It's not going to be there. But guess what else not in there? Trinity, if you go back to King James, pedophilia, that's not in their DNA. What pedophilia is do you guys agree that is wrong? So you agree that it's wrong and it's not in the Bible come on. I know you don't get me so just because we agree that pedophilia is wrong and it's not in the Bible where we solely agree, corporately agree that it's not right so how can Christians at the church take a stance on something that the Bible never talks about right now?

Well, how do we begin to take a stance on a subject matter that the Bible never really talks about? This is one of the most poignant objections that many people talk about was this. Homosexuality is not in the Bible, even if there's not even in the New Testament. Forget the Old Testament, right? Even if it's not in the New Testament, then we can't give credence to it. But you know what it is in the Bible you have to read it for what it is. Hebrews Chapter 13 versus this is a Jesus Christ is the same yesterday. Today and forevermore the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, he said, let us go down and make mankind in our image and who do you think he was talking about? God, the Father, Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, that's the Trinity and so if Jesus is the same yesterday back in B.C., before Christ, today our present time, and then forevermore the future, then where should we be? These things too, the issues concerning today and now and then the problems now and and then the things that we may face in the days to come.

So Jesus did talk about homosexuality. He talked in Matthew, chapter five in Matthew, chapter 19 where he talked about marriage and so Jesus began to talk about marriage in chapter five of book, the book of Matthew and also chapter 19. So he addresses, addresses the issue of marriage he understands that formation of marriages became between a man and a woman. All right. That's right. Mark, chapter five or 69 says this. But at the beginning of creation, before anything was formed, God may male and female. For this reason, a man would leave his father and his mother be reunited with his wife in the to shall become one flesh so they no longer are two, but they are one. Therefore, what God has joined together let no man separate let no man separate.

So is like this. So if God is the author of marriage and God defines marriage, and then God began to create marriage in the formation of marriage, He has the image of marriage. How can men redefine it? How can we redefine what marriage is supposed to be like? You all being quiet just Jesus speaks to how marriage should be constituted. But the culture that we live in today desires that the church compromise is our position and what this look like how about the second argument? I was born like this, right? I'm sure many of you have heard this before. Like I was born this way. I came out the womb whatever you want to call it.

You know, I just, you know, would leave out later on. I was born like this. Right. But imagine this Psalm 51 verse five says this Behold, I was saved in iniquity. We were fashioned in iniquity and in sin. Did my mother conceive me so what is what is the iniquity in the Greek? Just the translation. I can give you the Greek word, but just a translation, a definition of the Greek. It iniquity is the perversion the evil, the mischief, the mischievousness of of our desires. That's the iniquity. So the imago day, right? The image of God when Adam and Eve sinned God's original plan for man, for you, him and I, you and I went out the door even before he kicked him out of the out of the garden.

God's original plan for Adam and Eve was to dwell in the garden. The presence of God direct access to God so because Plan A is out the door, he has to go to Plan B, thank God for Plan B, right so for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Yeah, let me read that one more time because, you know, we see John 316 all day, every day, right? We silly homeless people, we hold it up like let me just give praise God. Let me just help him out right Tebow was wearing it when Tebow wore John 316 for the first time. Mostly that was the most John 316 was ever looked up during that process the football game for God's love the road that he gave his only son that whosoever whosoever whosoever lgtb Q So if they believe then what happens here that group shall not perish right?

I want you guys to get that so my question is this how should the church respond? Right? This that's the biggest question, right? Or more most importantly, right? Another debate is this. That that community would never make it into heaven. That's one of the biggest debates outside of the that homosexuality is not in the New Testament or the Old Testament because it doesn't say homosexuality but this people group would not make it in to have the right this that's one of the most contending debates that we have as believers as the church but John 36 said that whosoever believes in the sun would not perish and have the eternal life so how should the church respond we should be compassionate and not let compromise do you get that that we should have compassion with anyone, not just the LGBTQI community? Fornicators, adulterers, idolaters, cousin Peter. Oh, come on, whatever you're you're saying, whatever you your hangup may be, compassion should be there.

But not compromise. That means you take the word of God with him. Let's, let's say let's have a C, let's just sit down. Let's see what the word of God says about your situation, what you're going through, and that you're going to love them through that process. But you don't compromise your position that you stand solely on the word of God. OK, Pastor Ryan, what about Pastor Paul in all of his writings? I know some of you guys say, what about first written in chapter six? I'm glad that you asked. I'm I read it for you. First Corinthians. Chapter six is this do you know do you not know that wrongdoers would not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexual immoral. That was me one time before. Let me just put myself I'm blessed B.C before Christ. Everything under the sun. Right. And many of you guys out there probably do an exact same thing I was doing I heard one last thing in my life yeah.

I know what I'm talking about. And some of you are doing it right now. Let me keep it going. Neither sex immoral nor dollar cures, nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor the splendors know the swindlers or will inherit the kingdom of God in that is what some of you were that was BC, right? That's before you met Christ to truth be told, that's even in Christ but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ by the Spirit of our God. It says this in verse 12 I have the right to do anything that I want to do. That's right. We have the right to do anything and everything that we want to do.

You can do it all day, every day. Twice on Sunday. Amen. But not everything is beneficial for you. I have the right to do anything, but I would not be mastered by anything you say food is for the stomach and stomach for the food and that God would destroy them both. The body, heart, wherever is not meant for sexual morality, but for the Lord in the lower for the body by His power. God raised the Lord from the dead and were raised up raises up. Also, do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ Himself? Should I then take the members of Christ that unites them with a prostitute? He says, never did not do not know that who unites himself with the prostitutes, one with her body, for it is said that the two will become one flesh she Paul was writing to the Corinthian Church because they got it twisted.

See, the Christian church forgot who they were. They forgot their calling, they forgot their purpose, and they forgot who they're supposed to be in Christ. So Paul had to write them a little reminder slash rebuke to let them know that the direction that you guys are head is not what God has called you to do. So how should the church respond? There's a video that we're going to see in which gives us the opportunity of to hear from Jackie Hill Perry in a very short segment of many of the things that she has in the past in which you guys watch this video and we'll talk about it in a second. The purpose of our book was for us to know what it looks like for a believer who who's gone through the process of struggling in a sin. But this particular sin that she's talking about, the sin of homosexuality and many of you may not know that this young lady right here, she's married and she has kids, say one that you know, I'm saying it, her child is not adopted.

Her husband and her conceived the child. See, the belief is that whenever you become say that, you know, all the desires that you know, that you are jacked up from the floor up at least those desires is going to be there. But it's how you walk out those desires and who you walk it out with because those desires that I had when I was just young and dumb and single and just doing what I was, even though Mary, you know, I'm still I'm still doing the same thing, but differently because I have an advocate, I have a helper, one that's willing to walk with me daily to show me how to live out my life, to challenge me to say, right, this is now what I've called you to do. This is now who I've called you to become. This is what I desired to walk to, that where you can have the fullness of my grace see, we will always be tempted always. Scripture tells us that he would give us a way of escape right my son always.

You know, we kind of laugh because I'm like, Yo, even my daughter has to look elbows in my cheeks. That's all they need to see. If you're running away. Elbows. OK, yeah. I'll get it later. Now. Missed it. He gives you a way of escape. Right so all you have to do is just turn and run, go the opposite direction, tells us to flee from immorality. But many of us, we sit in water, land, and we sit, and we engage into it. Been there, done that, got a tattoo and says it all. But it's not. God desires for a life to be a Christian doesn't mean that you would not be tempted, but it means that you have somebody that is willing to meet you.

Where you at? Even in the roughest parts of where you're doing life. She will come down and meet you. He will leave the throne of grace and glory, come down on earth and reside and walk with you. That's why he sent his advocate, the Holy Spirit. Philippians tells us that we have to work out our own salvation, right? That we have to continue to work it out, whatever your habit or your hangup may be we serve a God that was tempted in all areas but did not sin Jackie Hill. Perry said this. She said that I love God more than what I'm tempted by. That her love for God is more than what her temptation may be, that her love for the Scriptures, for a relationship with our God, our Savior is more than what her temptation may stand. Guys, we walk in temptation every single day, but we have to get to a point in our minds and in our focus that we say that we love God more than what we're tempted by. And I know sometimes that's hard because Sensation is staring singer in your face. But my love for Him, for God, and for the Gospel is greater than my temptation that the love of the Gospel is greater than my weakness.

Is at that moment that history is made perfect when I'm weak and even if you're still weak, get you some phrase that can hold you up. Come on, I'll get you some to die for. Is we ride together, we die together. But since we live in a new life, we going to live together that I love God more than what I'm tempted by. So how can I see my life in the Scriptures? How does that apply to me? Right now? Whatever that temptation may be, maybe is homosexuality. Maybe it's pornography. Maybe it's that same sex attraction. Maybe it is drinking or smoking or cursing or or gossiping or backbiting, whatever that may be. Maybe that's your thought that Jesus had left there to buffet you to keep you humble, to keep you going back to this word. Because I'll tell you the reason why, that we encounter trials and tribulations to bring us back to the word the reason that we are feeling that we're faced with struggles is to get us back in a word so if you're struggling right now, encountered all joy counted all joy that the press or viewers of my faith will produce something that God wants to pull out of me right ultimately to get me on my knees and Bible for the Heavenly Father and pray.

When was the last time that you fell on your knees? Church come on now. When was the last time that you got to your knees and pray? And I'm talking about prayed and cried the ugly cry. Don't know what that cried. I'm talking about so how should the church respond? I started off with John Chapter eight talking about the woman caught in adultery. And we know that Scripture chose that home, that homosexuality is a sin and it's wrong. We agree with that. But how should the church respond the mosaic loss is that we should stone this woman who was caught in the very act of adultery I believe Jesus sat down, begin to start writing with his finger calling out all the scenes that they had. Those individuals that picked up the rocks says, I know what you got going on in your life. Let me write down your sin. That person dropped the rock. Let me write down your sin. The next person. Let me write down this next thing that you're dealing with and these were the teachers of the law one by one, Jesus, begin to expose your laundry so how should the church respond?

The church us? We should start having more conversations. They're trying to convert because we can't convert anyways. The Holy Spirit doesn't say we don't even have the power to do it. If we're willing to have a conversation with that individual, then I would say do it. Stop trying to convert you can sit there, speak in tongues, pray for gallons of oil on them, whatever you want to do, you can't do anything God is the only one Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the only one that can convert them. Kill them conversations and not conversions, compassion and not compromise as believers, we have to stop equating seamlessness with Christianity because it's not the biblical have reminded of this. If you think you're so high and mighty on your totem pole. Let me remind you what James says in chapter two for the person who keeps all the laws except for one.

Oh, you do good. You keep all of them. But the one that you're not keeping, are you guilty of them all now? So Jesus loves the LGBTQ Jesus loves the LGBTQ. That should be a slight affront not only if he loves you, guess what else he did for them? He die for you Jesus died for them. Jesus died for you. So I don't know what your position is with this community. And y'all might not come back to the church after this, but I will I pray that our church will embrace this community and willing to do life with them. Come on, guys. I know that's a bold place. That's a bold position to have but that's my brothers and sisters. Because I promise you, somewhere down on your family line, you got an uncle, cousin, brother, sister, mother, daughter, whatever it may look like that's in that community. I have it on both sides of my family. And I said, love, because when Jesus caught the young lady with the very act of adultery, what did he do Deacon Denver, Deacon Victor he did not at the end of the day, I would rather be excluded for who I include than to be included for who I excluded.

Part of my Christian faith is that we should live out our life as close as we can to Jesus he was a fringe player, always hanging out with those, the others he wasn't supposed to hang out with or talk to. My life is abundantly because of knowing so many different people that don't look like me, that don't talk like me, don't speak like me, that maybe speak a different language. My life is enriched because I embrace those people so church, I give you this I give you the same commandment that God is giving you, John. 1334 says, if I give you this, He says to love one another. And God has called us to not only love this community, but to remind them they have a seat in heaven because the church for years, four decades has told them that their lifestyle, even though it may be an abomination, it excluded them from having entrance into heaven. And truth be told, there's only one sin. There's only one unpardonable sin. And that's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere else in the Bible does this says if this person is is gay or straight, or if they're transgender, or if they are lying or cheating, doesn't mean does not say that they do not have access to heaven. The only part is scripture that says this message, if you blasphemy the Holy Spirit and that and that alone they can have access to heaven to pass around.

What do you do after they come to Christ? Great question. I encourage you to do life with him, walk it out with him, hang out with them. Love on the and allow God to make that transformation take place. So after this last song, we're going to kind of just do a maybe five minute just greeting everybody, loving and everybody. But we want to set the stage where you guys can just ask questions from the floor. We open it up to you, and if I don't know the answer, I'll look it up and come back with you and just lean into our leadership team as well. Many of you may not know we've instituting a have in the process an institute and deacons of our church so we have elders and deacons and pastors that will begin to help you walk through this process as well.